An audio recorded artist talk took place at 401 Richmond Building, Friday March 7, 2025:

Jordan:

I'm going to start by thanking you, Camille, for being here. I’ll [also] start off our conversation with a Land Acknowledgment to say that we're here on unceded territories, which originally [were inhabited by] the Haudenosaunee, Mississaugas of The Credit, Huron-Wendat, Anishnaabe, and Metis people, This is land that's still shared by many folks, from those nations and from those of settler origin. I [acknowledge] the Dish with One Spoon treaty as a reminder that there's enough to go around. There's enough for all of us to share, as we're all here eating from one dish with the same spoon. With that in mind, that is part of what has informed this series; an idea of reciprocity, dialogue, engagement, new kinds of conversations. It's been so wonderful to be in dialogue with you since November of 2024, so four or five months. Do you want to introduce yourself and talk a little bit about your artistic practice?

Camille:

Sure. My name is Camille Kiku Belair. I'm based in Toronto, and I also grew up here. My practice is mainly based in classical music. I'm a classical guitarist and a composer. But over the last few years, it's kind of moved towards visual arts, incorporating visual arts and especially looking at different ways of working with music notation through the lens of visual arts and different creative ways. I'm really interested in field recording, working with, different types of sound and thinking about sound in different ways. And yeah, this is a super exciting performance coming up. Thank you so much for including me in this.

Jordan:

I mean, I am so excited! We first met when we were both at OCAD (Ontario College of Art & Design) at the same time, I was in the Curatorial Practice [Masters] program and you were in the Interdisciplinary Art Media & Design Master's program. Our cohorts were running parallel, so we had a couple classes together. I was intrigued from the moment I met you. Everything that you were doing to me just seemed so truly interdisciplinary in the sense of working between different media and the sound element and then the classical music background. I just was so fascinated. Any chance I had, I was coming to see what you were working on and I got to see your thesis exhibition. This has been a really exciting dialogue to engage in with you, even though this is a new exploration [for you] to do [what would be considered] performance [art], first of all, to sort of be in a space which is a more traditional performance art kind of arena, and then also, to be doing something which is longer form because you will be here in the space that we are currently in, which is part of the Commons at 401 Richmond, in Toronto.

Our talk this evening is the only artist talk that's happening before you've done the performance, we're speaking about it all in the future tense because it's going to happen tomorrow. What your plans are for tomorrow? And what is the performance going to look like people for people who come to see it?

Camille:

I’ll primarily be performing this piece on classical guitar called Autocatharsis. This is a piece that I've been working on for around six years, which finally came to completion as I figured out how to notate it and kind of what the identity of the piece was. And so the structure of the afternoon will be three sets of performing this piece.

Each set will involve one run through the piece on the guitar, which will be recorded at the same time, followed by a playback of that recording accompanied by what you [might] say is dictation or, transcribing what was performed in a very open and creative way. So not notating on [a music] staff directly what was played, but doing some kind of visual representation to act as a document rather than a score itself, even though it could be used in the future as a score.

This activity will be taking place in a special book that I’ve bound, which is very simple, it's pretty much two books that open across from each other, bound into one single object. So that one page can represent one movement, because it's a four movement piece. And then there will be a short break and then that will be repeated twice.

Jordan:

We've talked a lot about how about this sort of interaction in a sense between music and then this visual output, the visual creation that you're going to be doing. But I'm curious if you can talk about sort of what some of the layers are of, of this and also just what informs your musical practice for example?

Camille:

For, I guess for this particular performance, there's quite a few different moving elements. There's the original composition itself, which is its own standalone piece, and then there's the broader context of this as a as a singular performance. Even though there's three sets within it, I still see it as this, the four hours as being one, one experience or one event. If you will.

Jordan:

[What do you consider] your exploration [tomorrow]? We can come back to your musical background in a minute, but, what is some of the exploration for you in doing this performance?

Camille:

Right. As I was saying before, there's kind of the two different aspects to this. There's the individual piece and then there's the full event. So with the individual piece, I was really interested in... I ended up thinking about, well, what is the minimum musical content that you could use to create something that's still recognizable as a composition? I was interested in that as a way of sort of teaching myself my own way of composing, instead of kind of moving through a structure of somebody else's pedagogy as far as steps to create, especially a classical music composition, that sort of thing. I was interested in working in a different way and just kind of developing my own way of doing things.

And so it seemed, I guess in some ways it's a little bit arbitrary, but it just came to me to think about. What's the least that I could do to make something? And from there you can grow, and so starting from that point, it's gone through many different iterations. This piece, the general content of the movement, which is typically only maybe 1 or 2 textures that alternate for each of the different movements, one different texture or a single note, or maybe two notes that alternate, that are changing from one movement to the next, that kind of identify the movements as distinct.

Originally I had been working on this way of notating it and having it be exactly the same every single time, as though it would be this hyper minimalist piece. Not necessarily in the style of minimalism within classical music, but very like a very minimal, very sparse kind of piece that would be performed in the same way every time.

I was working to find what the most effective way of pacing it would be, in the most effective way of introducing new content or alternating things, so that it would still have some sort of a sense of movement or a shaping of time to it. And then eventually I kind of came to the sense of, well, this could be so easily improvised as far as those kind of decision making moments go.

Eventually it seemed the most, I guess authentic version of the piece would be to have it be improvised, within those restrictions, so that I now call it a structured improvisation. [There are] many examples in modern music and contemporary music. So kind of drawing from those backgrounds.

Jordan:

Can you share a little bit about your, your background in music and classical guitar, what the path has been like?

Camille:

Yeah. So I started composing when I was maybe like three like very, very young, like maybe 3 or 4 years old, just on my own. And I guess my parents saw that I had this interest in music and so put me in music lessons. I originally did piano for maybe like six months and didn't really like it, and then moved on to singing and guitar and guitar really stuck.

So I think a big part of this piece too, is kind of a return to playing or composing solo classical guitar music, because prior to this, I had really been focused on ensembles or still guitar ensembles, but like, not just solo music. So this is really a return to that. So then eventually, because I was interested in composing as a young child, and I eventually got into playing guitar, then it seemed a natural progression to look into classical music just because of the content of what I was composing at the time.

And I think I enjoyed the structure of learning in that when performing the pieces and that sort of thing, and that kind of just continue to progress and to continue to compose and play guitar and visual art was always also involved in my life as well. But I kind of took a sideline after I got into high school and became a bit more focused and thinking about like, university and what to do after high school.

I went to University of Toronto, originally into the general first year, and then I got into the performance program for classical guitar and the composition program. I was doing this kind of “under-the-table” double major for a few years. And eventually [dropped] out of performance just because there was, too many courses going on in my final year. I ended up graduating with just the composition degree. And after that I went right to grad school for the first time at, CalArts [in California] for the Performer-Composer program, because I was really looking for somewhere where I could naturally incorporate composing and performing into one program, which outside of [the music] world, it seems very natural that people would be interested in doing more than just one of those disciplines.

And especially now at this stage, the way that I'm working interdisciplinarily, it seems even stranger that you would have these very isolated disciplines within music like that. But there was this program there at Cal Arts where you could do both as an actual program and not actually be doing a double major.

It was actually a set [composer-performer] program. And then when the pandemic began, I ended up switching to the, what was it called…… The Experimental Sound and composition program, because I was realizing I was moving more and more towards being interested in and incorporating other disciplines such as visual arts. So really working in this kind of cross-disciplinary or interdisciplinary way, noticing that just in my own work, when I didn't have these kind of academic constraints about you need to be producing this kind of thing for an assignment or those kind of constraints.

It really naturally began to kind of seep back in to my way of working through things and thinking about creative ideas more generally.

Jordan:

Yeah. I mean, I understood very early on when I met you and when we talked was just that it you were you had so many different sort of creative pathways and pursuits. But they weren't separate. They were working in this sort of….. Harmony. I was so intrigued. And then I knew about, the experience that you had a Cal Arts, which also then was impacted by the pandemic. Right? And that [it was] such a tough time for so many people who [were] about to embark on a, on a certain chapter, [and then] relocation that had to happen during that time period…

It sounds like there's a lot of, experimentation built into what's going to happen tomorrow. I'm wondering if anything about what you intend to do tomorrow….. Feels like a risk artistically? Or sort of like something that is totally new and outside of your….. the previous kinds of performance or work [you’ve done]?

Camille:

Yeah. I think the, the primary thing that's completely new is performing drawing. I haven't done anything like that before, but I'm very interested in it, especially performing repetitive actions for a certain duration. That kind of idea, I think is very interesting to me. But in general, this particular piece, Autocatharsis, has been one that I've been super thrilled about since I started working on it all those years ago.

But it's also one that makes me sweat the most as far as anything that I've created musically before. Like even, I think when I've made my similarly sparse field recording pieces. It's very different when you're listening to a recording and it's it's personal experience, both for the listener and the person creating it. And it's also an arms length because it's already been created and it's put out into the world, and then people can engage with it if they want to.

But it's not the same as presenting something with an audience, having it be this kind of very, very sparse piece and kind of wondering, especially the first movement is the most sparse, and that's how the whole thing begins, the wondering, it's like, okay, how can I really expect engagement with this? Or is it okay to expect engagement? Or what can I really expect as far as how people are going to react to it?

I think the the general essence of it, like aesthetically I feel would be, well, described as being somewhat meditative in some ways. Like almost like bell sounds or drones kind of alternating between the movements as they move in one and three or more, are like Bell kind of sounds and movement two and four or more drone textures. And so I think of it, it's just kind of in some ways, I'm thinking about this, the full event tomorrow as this kind of like a trial that I'm going through as far as like testing my ability to, to focus for that duration.

Because this is also even though it's a very minimal piece. And I think compared to the technical demands, though, it does have its own technical very specific technical challenges as far as a difficulty to perform it, compared to other pieces that are a lot more active or like a more, much more structured, this one, you can continue to just hang out in a certain texture for a while until you can figure out what to do next, or feel like you can make another move versus performing a more traditional piece where it just continues to go.

And if you pause, the music pauses. It's like it's very different in that way as well.

Jordan:

Part of this series is the presence of the camera in the performance space. And we have some interesting ideas that we're going to work through tonight after the talk happens, in terms of… The placement of the camera and part of this series is really allowing the performer to to decide exactly how they want the camera to be positioned, how it is that they want to use it as a tool, all of that is totally up to you.

We're going to do some experimenting with that this evening once we finish this talk. But I'm curious what your thoughts are about the presence of the camera as part of this performance and that whole element?

Camille:

I guess originally I wasn't completely sure what to think about it. I have done a few, let's say, live streamed performances in the past. And I feel very strongly for myself, at least for, like having the knowledge that a camera is on. It gives a very similar feeling to being in front of a live audience. And I even notice myself when you I know you were mentioning in some of the other questions [we discussed] before [this talk], just the presence of cameras in general. It's like, I feel like I noticed that very strongly, and it can affect the way that I'm acting. And then thinking a bit further along those lines that made me realize, and especially within the context of this performance as well, the presence of the microphone is also very similar. I find [it] yet another kind of recording device.

And thinking along those lines as well, it made me realize yet again that, okay, wait, having just a microphone, it has that effect. And knowing that it's being heard. So say in this case, the microphone that's going to be live, going to the other room that will be allowing people to hear what I'm playing in real time in the other room.

That's something, even if I can't see the audience, that will still create the sensation of being in front of a live audience. But also the fact that I think recording creates another layer to that too, and adds another kind of pressure, which I think is also very distinct. [Then there’s] the potential with the camera as well, we had discussed as whether there would be [video] recording involved or not.

Jordan:

The hope is that we're able to record it to play during the break period between each of the, one hour long performances because there's a 30 minute break, so the, potential is that we're going to be able to play that as a recording in the gallery 30 minutes, but that is still to be determined.

We are figuring that out at our tech this evening, because as [folks] can probably imagine it was a significant technical undertaking to get this camera to project, to get these sort of systems to all interact and cooperate. And we've been able to make that happen. But, you know, and initially, really, we were not going to record anything.

But I think for your performance specifically, it does make sense to record a portion [to play back] in between [each set]. [Then] an alternative, if the video is not recorded to playback that there will be the audio portion played back on a 30 minute loop so that folks who come in [can] see, even if you're not physically present during that break time, the camera will be in the space.

The work that you're creating and working on during the performance will still be in the space. So still, to see that sort of visual sense coming in, to see the gallery, see the camera, see what we get with the cameras capturing, hear the sound piece. [Not] all [of] that [will happen] this evening because we're having this artist talk both in advance of our tech and in advance of the performance.

I wonder if you can speak a little bit about, I guess, just your sense of cameras in, in broader daily life as well. We live in a very surveilled society now, and with social media and any of the tools that we have in our pockets, many of us, cameras are kind of everywhere. Do you have a relationship with cameras in that way, with the presence of cameras around the world?

Camille:

I would say so definitely like primarily my own personal devices, kind of having this knowledge that it's like, oh, there's a camera there. And I think, even one of my coworkers has a camera, one of those webcam cameras, even when it's fully unplugged, like he always like, turns it around because I think that there's a certain presence to these devices, even when you 100% know for sure that they're off.

But for the most part, yeah. And I think that goes with like microphones as well. Like there's a certain and I think a lot of times nowadays there's microphones and cameras in one as far as most devices go.

Jordan:

Not only is big brother watching Big Brother could be listening as well….. I could read a little portion from the artist statement that you provided, because I think it offers a bit of, context for just kind of the complexity of what it is that you're going to be doing, and just all the layers of what I think is really beautiful.

[In your artist statement you’ve written]: “[this] iterative presentation, alternates guitar performances with live drawing session in response to recordings of these performances, creating spontaneous notations. Every repetition of the work is a unique version, never played exactly the same way.” And so I guess when I read that, it made me sort of think, you know, because some people might say, well, isn't every kind of live performance never performed exactly [the same?] You might have the same sheet music, but you can't really, replicate perfectly every single condition of an original performance or an original recording.

Do you have any, I mean, that kind of explains it a little bit, but that with this you're you're really endeavoring to…. I guess can you speak about sort of what the changes are in the notation and how it may shift from even any one of the three performances that you're getting?

Camille:

Yeah. Okay. So, I guess to start the notation that I work with now for this particular piece, and there's also, if anyone's coming in person and will see a music stand, it's more of a guide, like a guideline as far as what content exists in each movement. Just for me to work with, what the general materials are. And once again, those are typically [just] two different textures or two different notes that alternate throughout each movement.

Jordan:

Visually do they look different visually as well? If you're thinking about like, one to the next?

Camille:

I guess for that notation to clarify, it's written in more of a standard Western style, like on a music staff notation, just for a practical performance score is what I'm calling it.

When it comes to the, the dictation part or the drawing part, I was wondering myself whether or not I was going to do something different each time. But I think because of the speed and the practicality of having to keep up with the recording while drawing, it's kind of very, very simple. It's very much simplified what my options were as far as like what's practical to be able to keep up.

So say I'm drawing little diamonds to represent the harmonics, because you use a diamond on the staff to represent a harmonic in traditional notation. And that's something that's quick enough to be able to draw as it happens, as you hear it. And other times I'm doing almost like squiggly kind of lines that look a little bit like waveforms for the textures.

It really it's just those two kind of ideas, either individual notes like the harmonics or the kind of bell like sounds or the swirly lines or waveforms for the more textural movements. So that's something that I'm really interested in from undertaking this performance myself is what is the notation process, because then you can actually visualize what you've done instead of having to listen to 20 min to half an hour, a 20 minute to half an hour piece to be able to experience what you've done.

I'll be doing that while I'm drawing, [so] there'll be this visual document. [That] idea of creating a document that you can glance at and get a stronger understanding in an instant of what the form ended up being and what the order of events ended up being, is the idea behind doing that process.

I think that it'll be inevitable that that will impact what I then perform next in the next set, but based on the desire to create contrast between the sets, because I think when I'm in the moment and I'm performing, it's almost this idea of injecting the difference into the sameness. When it comes to I'm technically playing the same thing, just literally the same texture that just sustains.

But I'm changing what I can change within those parameters, such as the volume or the tambre. As I'm moving my hand, my right hand, closer to the bridge or further away from the bridge, it changes the sound of it, and it actually creates a lot of overtones that will pop up, which are other notes that are at a much higher frequency.

So it's really like this really deep relationship with the instrument itself throughout this piece. So it's kind of like a physical exploration of what's possible. And that's another reason why I like this idea of a minimum within that context, [it] really makes the piece just about what can this instrument do with the most sparse musical content? What is possible to do? What kind of sounds can I generate?

Jordan:

Sounds beautiful. I'm curious if anyone who's here today has any questions about the performance or the concept?

Attendee:

I mean, I have a lot of questions because I know nothing about music. So even just as you were speaking it, you know, dawns on me. Oh, right. Even within something, a musical work that has been composed. There are always interpretations that another musician might make, so there's always ways for it to be the same, and different. Right? And this really, for me, really leans into what I believe in performance is that there's no such thing as free performance, free form, something there's no reason to refer back to something because the life experience is singular and unique.

So it's really interesting to me also just in relationship to my own kind of performative interest in form and repetition and how it can break form and repeat breaking form, you know, all these things are really super interesting to me. So I'm just thinking about the relationship between almost words, right… in music, in interpretation, composition. What else did you say? Notation? We think of dance, for example, which has, you know, specific notation systems and even just always performance artists attempt to document or write about to pin down what they're doing, which is impossible. And yet we find these ways to, oh, look at any service website if there's an image and yeah, you know, so all of that's really interesting to me and probably a billion questions.

I very much understand this notion of creating experiment that's minimal, the minimum with which you can then expand from there. But in terms of the drawing or notation part, how do you try and not do what you already know how to do? Do you know what I mean? You say notation on the staff and you're trying a different way of notation.

So how do you set your mind up for doing? Because I can imagine in music and like all kinds of other things, your training will pull you back to the thing You know. Right? So how do you one decide to take on that task and how do you how do you imagine you all have to think of a different way to be able to do that, to notate the un-notatable in a way.

Or what does that that kind of notation, what does it serve in the overlap. Because they just overlap. Right. So I don't know just maybe you can say something more about that.…

Camille:

Yeah. That I think when I was thinking originally about doing that in the first place, like doing a drawing portion or a notation portion, that comes from my interest in notations in general.

And I think more broadly, when I'm doing more like gestural works or pieces that are technically scores but are very much primarily visual artworks, I've realized, and I think this comes back to the guitar as an instrument itself and my relationship with the instrument, the kind of physical gestures that come from that can translate as far as, like these repetitive gestures or like, rhythms and this kind of thing as far as like I think when I think about drawing in general and I do a lot more, very loose and open, abstract works.

I almost think about it like my hands have been all charged up with energy from various things, even such as playing the guitar. And that's a way of kind of like releasing it, I think in some ways, too, that's like the title Autocatharsis. I kind of put those words together. And then I was doing some research about like what?

Where this term could possibly have been used. And it turns out it actually comes from, like psychoanalysis, where people would do, like free writing and as a way of trying to like by themselves. And I guess with help from like an analyst or somebody, later stage like, release something from themselves. And so I really see this piece in some ways, as the minimal nature of it is providing the equivalent of like words.

So it's not just totally open, free improvization, no structure. It's providing a kind of a ground with which to then really express whatever you're interested in expressing, like within those constraints from moment to moment.

Attendee:

It sounds like it has a lot of structure. But yeah, for people who don't have music or don't have a relationship to experimental performance, even from the 1960s experimental composition or, that kind of minimal repetition kind of performance, I think it would be hard to record that.

So, yeah, from the audience's point of view, that there's something there that they may, may intuit but not recognize because they don't have the language. Right. And yet you're also doing this thing where you have the language, necessarily but you’re doing with thing where you’re kind of trying to….. Mess with it in a way to take it further direction. I mean, it's that's really super interesting.

And, and I, I predict will be well felt, and you in your own way and by the audience. But what's also interesting to me about this whole series is that, you know, when you were also talking about durational performance and like, you know, I think all of the artists in the series will go through that thing that people who make long performances go through, which is if you come to a moment where you're like, oh my God, why did I decide to do this?

It's boring. And then you're already arriving with something that's like, I think you said earlier, that's so sparse and minimal, and how do I do it three times? How do I make it different? You're already kind of coming with that material. So you're well positioned to do it over a long duration to think about it as one piece.

But also what I find fascinating is that the presence of the camera is becoming secondary to this notion of like duration, you know, in a way. Right. I'm assuming the camera would be positioned on the drawing or how will the camera…..

Camille:

There's options. There's options to move it so that it's filming me while I'm performing. And then we move it back so that it's, I guess, the primary function of the camera for at least for the drawing section, is to really clearly show what I'm drawing, because that's from out there, from the hallway.

It'll just be me sitting at a table. So I really want to be able to have that kind of contrast of this very anonymous or like intimate, private moment happening in the corner of me drawing and then having what I am drawing very visible in the other room. I think that's some, some way in which, the camera can kind of expand my capabilities of being able to share that kind of work.

Attendee:

Yeah, I guess I'm thinking to also like, how does the idea of dual views sort of relate to what you feel or know about music? And I guess if you could be even like point of view perspective, you know, literally some kind of art words. that are sprinkled across the multi disciplines. But like yeah I mean maybe less surveillance but more like a point of view…. Do you have a thought about that?

Camille:

Yeah I think something that's just coming into my mind now, which I think is really interesting, is this idea of, so especially a classical music or classical music ish kind of performance when you have the audience right in front of you is a very structured people already kind of know what to expect or they're used to that, whereas oftentimes there's a bit of a divide between like classical musicians especially, and people who don't necessarily have any interest or knowledge about the classical music.

Trying to say, oh, we'll just think about film music, [a cinematic score], or something. And that's kind of a way into thinking about, like you've heard some of this before, but it's been in different contexts as far as then going and listening and having it be exclusively just the music and just the sound as the focal point instead of sound and image.

So I think even say in the moment when I'm performing, having that, that…. the distinction between one room, it's almost like watching a film of this happening and what, what how does that change the understanding of it versus something that's, a lot more close to the seats in front of the performer in a live setting.

And then I think another component of this particular performance, which I'm really excited about, is the recording, and that if people are staying for the duration, or at least for one set, I'm really curious about what the experience of of listening to this particularly sparse music is when it is live and in person and then listening to the recording back, because I'm very excited about the space too, as well, because of all the other sound that's coming through and what the effect of having that sound coming through with the recording after the fact while I'm doing the drawing portion, what that will impact.

Attendee:

I mean, there's also, 401 Richmond used to be an old tin factory. So there's also this other kind of weird relationship between, you know, music, guitars, tin reverberation, tin types making photos and etching on tin..… Yeah. The kind of, the site offers a whole bunch of different kind of relationships, even in the vocabulary.

Jordan:

And as we [learned] last week, the sound doesn't really travel through the glass. So people on the other sort of glass won't likely be able to hear well built here to an extent, because your music is going to be amplified. So here, I mean, yeah, it will, but it will be different experience.

Attendee:

But there's also now the, the site and the aural kind of differences to tease out. And yeah, and there was, there was comments from folks that were here last week about just really being quite conscious of this glass. As this interruption. They could be present, they could here, they could see it, but they just weren't accustomed to having this kind of barrier to like experience performance in that way.

Yeah. And especially with music, to be able to be so close to hearing the live music and then to have the sort of glass barrier that also is because, yeah, there's there's so many different layers. Right? Yeah. And around the sound component of it.

Camille:

That's another interesting, observation there. As far as what, what the setting will be with the glass, because I haven't really thought…. I was kind of worried about, how will people be able to hear clearly through the glass when I'm in here?

But I think in general, this piece is really about like the piece of music, Autocatharsis, as this composition is really about, about the process of performing and being present and kind of generating that kind of focus and kind of cultivating that focus, of performing and interacting with the instrument in a kind of very, in some ways, pressure released kind of way because it is a structured improvization and you can kind of, perform as you will for whatever you're experiencing in the moment.

So it's a kind of a mediated way of getting back into performing in front of people again.

Attendee:

I think all performance artists do that or think they're doing that or want to do that, structured improvization, you know, you come up with a plan and then you kind of go up and then you go and improvise your way through your plan to a greater or lesser extent.

I mean, I can't speak for all performance artists, but you know, this kind of rejection of rehearsal. Right. Like “I don't rehearse, I try to do things that for a few tests”, you know, it's a version of kind of structure and improvisation.

Jordan:

What's been your history I guess with performance either in live music or other areas?

Camille:

I guess early on [I] perform[ed] just solo classical guitar work. I guess eventually when I was in university, my undergraduate at the University of Toronto, it was a lot more guitar orchestra. We had a guitar orchestra there where there's about 12 guitarists all playing together, perform and performing in small guitar ensembles. But I would say just because of the pandemic, I didn't really get a lot of experience performing in more, more of those traditional settings.

[And then], since like, the last five years [with what’s] been going on…. Which is why I think I gravitated more towards working with field recordings or working with recorded media instead of performing because there just wasn't the option to do so for such a long time. I guess like, I think my most frequent performance experience has actually been in pit bands for musicals, which has been a fantastic experience. I love doing that so much.

Attendee:

I'm just thinking about, what you were speaking about earlier… I think it would be a neat experience to, like, see the musician playing, like, go in the other room and hear them. Yeah. So instead of, like, disjointed somehow. Yeah. Really interesting split of the senses or of our expectation.

Camille:

I think that's the factor in this piece too. Is it really like the doing this work of performing and then kind of doing an analysis, [a] visual analysis of what I've just done and then performing again and doing the visual analysis again and doing three sets of that is really like in some ways, what should be like a private developmental phase of a piece, however, this piece is, I think is always going to be still improvised in a similar fashion.

But I feel, just with what I'm realizing, the more that I perform it within this incredibly sparse…. With this sparse material to work with, I really only find more and more and more things to do within those constraints, which is really exciting. And so that's something that I got that goes through my mind when I'm performing it too is “Okay, I’ve got to save that for next time”, because the natural structure of this particular moment is winding down, so it's time to end it. So I but I can save these ideas as far as all the creativity that comes up, with working with kind of very minimal, material goes.

Attendee:

is it a cycle you're going to do? Play music and then drawing in the play music and then drawing?

Camille:

Yeah, three sets of that. So performing the music and recording it and then playing the recording back and drawing along to it. And then a little break and then three of those sets. So I guess the factor of, like possibly having people not be able to hear so well when they're actually seeing the in person, having that kind of shed more light on this really kind of a private practice.

But it's becoming public in that way I think is really interesting and I think is also something that I've been interested in in my field recording work as well, recording very quiet spaces or recording spaces where I'm just doing other work in the background, but there's still that kind of person of the presence of a person within the recording.

But it's also totally anonymous because it's just sound. There's something there that I've been really interested in as far as, I guess this contrast between something so personal but then also so anonymous. [In] a similar way to I think [through], especially with this piece, I think when I'm playing, I [might] look pretty [static] in some ways.

[Meaning] I don't know if it's even necessarily going to be super evident that I'm playing, or at least, with this particular piece. I'm so glad to have that be a factor in this as well, I think is really interesting.

Attendee:

It's like when you watch a movie too, you see this in film school where you turn down the volume and the visuals [come into focus] and you can do an analysis of the, emotions and stuff [on screen].

So seeing a musician, we, we usually relate to the sounds and we just see the musician vaguely. [But then if you] close your eyes? But that idea of just seeing the musician embodying their music, but the the subtleties of that, they can see because we hear, we can hear the music. Yeah. That's possible. It's interesting.

Jordan:

I [really] want to thank those of you that came today.

Camille:

Thank you so much, Jordan, for having me and, for FADO and Shannon, everyone [here].

Interview edited for length and clarity.

Performance documentation (March 8th, 2025):